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interesting. i hope something good comes out of this
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Posted: 2008-08-30 18:56:07
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On 2008-08-30 18:19:57, bart wrote:
On 2008-08-29 18:04:46, goldenface wrote:
I somehow doubt SE would be half as successful without the 'crappy' Sony 'sub-branding'.
As difficult as the pill is to swallow for Ericsson die-hards, the Cyber-shots and Walkmans have been the biggest and most successful products in the history of the JV.
Also, to somehow equate the current success of SE with that of Sony, as if somehow Sony is to blame for the current situation, is quite frankly a load of old bollocks. How on earth can anyone, who isn't an employee, presume to know what goes on behind closed doors and also what part of the words Joint Venture is so difficult to understand?
Both Sony and Ericsson are quite happy to suck up the millions of pounds in financial dividends from the JV so they should equally be prepared to take their fair share of the heat when things aren't so rosy. After all, thats what a JV is all about.
Does branding mather that much? the W800/W810 would've sold without the walkman logo, the same goes for the K800/810.
Quickshare, another brandname, originally made by SE, whats it worth today, nothing.
Look at the branding today, we see cybershot branding on phones with averedge cams, which will make the cybershot name look bad for SE and Sony.
Overbranding is bad, expanding the range of phones is good, but make sure you do it wisely, not lauchinig 3 phones that are the same but without branding, add more features then lauching a phone with less on it then the previus model.
The influence of Sony is having more and more impact on sales, for SE and Sony, in the negative way that is.
Regardless.
One of the main reasons Ericsson jumped into bed with Sony in the first place was to tap into Sony's branding, simple as. It worked didn't it?
Some of SE's best phones were designed and manufactured by SEMCJ? W900i? S700i? Not the biggest sellers but fantastic devices. Wouldn't you agree?
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Posted: 2008-08-31 02:11:23
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S700/W900 excuse me? those weren't that great.
sales aren't everything thats true, but you need more then a fresh look.
Look at the P series, most of the where made in France and we loved them, now they are made in china and we don't pay much attention to them.
(ok design and specwize the p series has gone down the drain).
The reason Ericsson teamed up with Sony is for the money, and only for the money. Ericsson tought Sony might've offered something extra, but all that they got was memory sticks and overbranding.
And some competition since Sony itself launched a few BT headsets
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Posted: 2008-08-31 02:46:54
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W900 hmm, that phone had good video recording performance for it's age... Nothing else special.
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Posted: 2008-08-31 02:56:04
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On 2008-08-31 02:46:54, bart wrote:
S700/W900 excuse me? those weren't that great.
The reason Ericsson teamed up with Sony is for the money, and only for the money.
Whether the aforementioned phones were great or not is purely a matter of opinion of course.
Ericsson teamed up with Sony for the money? Of course they did, why else? Ericsson mobile was about to disappear off the mobile radar altogether. They didn't team up with each other for a laugh. Ericsson was losing millions and went from a 25%+ market share to single figures in a matter of months. Sony mobile didn't make a dent saleswise.
People might think the good name of Ericsson is 'soiled' by its association with Sony, however, like it or not, Sony is a great company too and has great achievements under its belt. Playstation3? They spent so much money developing the PS3 its quite possible they might not ever recover the R&D cost.
The PSP is one of the biggest selling portable gaming console of all time and outsells the DS in Japan, its home turf.
Bravia TV is a household name, they get great reviews all the time. OLED displays are just around the corner.
A lot of people would argue that the Walkman players are better, if not as good as, anything Apple could make. Need I go on? People just love bashing Sony, thats just the way it is.
Ericsson is a fantastic company too and its made millions out of the JV that is SE.
Whether one is better than the other is an argument that would go on for days, however, Sony is a powerful brand, whilst Ericsson? The average person couldn't tell you what Ericsson was famous for. They'd probably think of the old England football manager before they linked the name with telecoms.
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2008-08-31 02:59 ]
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Posted: 2008-08-31 03:29:43
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Sony isn't the Sony it was 8years ago.
Sony is losing marketshare rapidly, they got no more advanced technology devision, PS3 cost them alot but that didn't turn into golden sales figures.
OLED arround the corner? it was arround the corner 6years ago, its nothing special. This current generation of OLED TV screens is poor, OLED doesn't last that long.
Sony's power died with the aibo, and its just a mather of time before SE drops place 5 and faces loss after loss.
And if they dare blaim it on Ericsson in what way ever, they'll have to do more then job cuts to get rid of the losses.
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Posted: 2008-08-31 04:09:06
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Ericsson pulls phone plug
1.1 billion dollars Ericsson mobile lost in 2001.
Who was to blame for that? Thats diabolical, even by the meanest use of the word! Hardly a good track record.
Yet when SE goes through a shaky period its Sony to blame?
Like I said already, its a joint venture so they are both to blame if things don't go according to plan.
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Posted: 2008-08-31 04:53:58
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You should know better then to start something like this with me.
Ericsson had alot of loss during those days and their where serval reasons for that.
-Poor low end phones
-Phones made in Europe (which is expensive)
-To many advanced prototypes in development
-More expensive materials in phones, and Battery's (they used Li-Polymeer while the rest was just starting to go to Li-Ion)
-The internet/telecom bubble, slowing down economy (serval reasons for that)
-To many acc availeble
-To many ideas that were ahead of time, and the market wasn't ready for that, just look at the stuff Ericsson mobile phones had that others didn't have, all the stuff Ericsson did first.
-And during that time their was extra invest ment in developing Sybmian and adjusting the platforms
Those to blaim, are the ones on top.
And its the same reason Sony started to fall years ago
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Posted: 2008-08-31 05:10:04
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@goldenface
Excellent find there mate!
Certainly seems alot of deja vu going on for Ericsson ATM. I especially liked this comment:
"Ericsson's mobile phone division has been losing money since the second quarter of 2000, blaming component shortages after a fire at one of its main suppliers, Philips Electronics, and an uncompetitive product mix."
Uncompetitive product mix and component shortages - I've seen those comments from SE lately too.
Perhaps what Ericsson brought to the JV was their PR dept...
Reading that article, I'm a bit worried as it shows that Ericcson don't have the balls to fight back from this position but I'll bet Sony do. No wonder its a Sony man at the helm...
Did you read the article I linked to? Sir Howard Stringer and Dickie Komiyama can certainly turn things around.
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Posted: 2008-08-31 05:37:04
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On 2008-08-31 05:10:04, bart wrote:
You should know better then to start something like this with me.
Ericsson had alot of loss during those days and their where serval reasons for that.
-Poor low end phones
-Phones made in Europe (which is expensive)
-To many advanced prototypes in development
-More expensive materials in phones, and Battery's (they used Li-Polymeer while the rest was just starting to go to Li-Ion)
-The internet/telecom bubble, slowing down economy (serval reasons for that)
-To many acc availeble
-To many ideas that were ahead of time, and the market wasn't ready for that, just look at the stuff Ericsson mobile phones had that others didn't have, all the stuff Ericsson did first.
-And during that time their was extra invest ment in developing Sybmian and adjusting the platforms
Those to blaim, are the ones on top.
And its the same reason Sony started to fall years ago
I was under the impression that a lot of it was due to a component shortage cause by fire in a Philips manufacturing plant, I think in Mexico? That left it unable to get the phones to market.
That and also what they call an 'unfavourable product mix' or in other words, they were sadly producing unattractive phones that no-one wanted to buy. So you're right, it was a combination of things.
Anyhow, a loss is a loss. There is no such thing as a good loss, especially when thousands of people lose their jobs.
@carkitter
Yes, I was thinking where I heard those words before. No I haven't read that article yet, I will do now.
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2008-08-31 05:00 ]
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Posted: 2008-08-31 05:57:52
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