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So far I've found it to be excellent and haven't come across any problems, but I haven't used it that much yet. I was impressed that it has the same zoom function like Nokia browser, and also that I could access my netbanking (which uses a java screen-based keyboard for secure login), something which doesn't even work on my PocketPC IE browser. Though it does work when using Opera Mini on the PocketPC So now I can use my internet banking which is a big fat bonus for me.

But if you don't like it that's fine, to each their own.

I wouldn't use Opera for PC (since IE is more than adequate), but since it offers more functionality on mobile device than SE offer (or even WM5 Pocket IE for that matter), I find a use for it.

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Posted: 2007-12-16 00:26:38
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Of course they are.
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Posted: 2007-12-16 00:43:27
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Nightblade, JAVA is not the OS of SE phones. A100 and A200 ARE NOT based on JAVA. They can run a Java virtual machine, but they are not JAVA BASED!!!!

Windows can run JAVA code, but does that mean windows is JAVA BASED? No of course not.


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Posted: 2007-12-16 01:09:45
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Nah, Windows is... Windows based.
Se's OS is Java based, I'm pretty certain.
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Posted: 2007-12-16 01:13:04
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Well you are wrong, sorry.

Possibly you are confused because many people call SE phones JP8, JP7 etc. But this only refers to the version of the JAVA VM included on the phone, it is not refering to the operating system itself. Java is an application platform not an OS (unless you are talking about blackberry devices in which case it DOES run A JAVA OS)

Also, application vendors refer to the phones as JP7, JP8 etc, because the version of JAVA is relevant to whether their apps will run on a phone or not. But the apps run in the sandboxed memory space of the Java virtual machine, not within the OS memory space itself. The OS contains the java vm, but is not BASED on it.


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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2007-12-16 00:27 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-16 01:13:23
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Right, thanks for clearing that up.

[ This Message was edited by: NightBlade on 2007-12-17 08:59 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-16 11:13:10
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No worries. I was unsure whether JAVA had it's own chip or not (I thought it did but apparently not - I think in earlier phones it did) but I am dead certain A100 is not written in JAVA. This is obvious since their are no JAVA API's that support the main phone functions (for example you cannot make a java phone app or an sms sending app).

We also know just from experience - J2ME started off with very little functionality, barely enough to run basic games let alone manage all the phone hardware. Early J2ME couldn't even access the file system, something the SE phone interface has been able to do from the start (to access ringtones, images etc). J2ME sits on top of the OS (whether it has it's own chip or not this still applies), just like the Sun JAVA Runtime Environment sits on top of Windows (so you can execute JAVA code on websites or in java apps for the PC).
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Posted: 2007-12-17 01:20:10
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@max_wedge

Unless SE rebuilt the A100/200 OS to be in entirely Java-based (i.e. the entire phone OS services are run ON TOP of JVM) otherwise the Java is mixed bag (i.e governed by api). If the underlying OS is non-multitasking like A100/200, then nothing Java/JVM can do to save the day (so to say). So it is not correct to say with more advanced Java API, SE A100/200 can approach the capability of Symbian based UI/OS.


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Posted: 2007-12-17 05:50:45
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SonyEricsson is using HW-accelerated Java bytecode execution since their first MIDP 2.0 devices. The latest implementations allow real Java multitasking. Here are some links about this "Jazelle" technology:
http://www.electronicstalk.com/news/ank/ank159.html
http://www.arm.com/products/esd/jazelle_home.html
http://www.arm.com/products/esd/jazelle_software.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#Jazelle

The Jazelle technology assists in the execution of the Java bytecode. The processor switches to an special operation-mode during that time. That's the secret behind the high throughtput of the non-smartphone Java virtual machine.

The main handset operating system is written in C/C++ just for performance reasons. It is multitasking, of course, like it has been the norm on most handsets since the birth of the GSM technology. If that wasn't the case, we couldn't receive calls while we were typing an SMS even on my old but good Ericsson A1018.

IMHO, the confusion in this thread about multitasking comes from misunderstanding about what a "task" is. On a normal phone there are tens of tasks running on a particular time, but most of them are invisible for the user (like monitoring the quality of the link, waiting for data from the base station, even waiting for an alarm to be fired).

On Symbian, like in Windows or other desktop OS's, you can launch multiple programs at the same time and switch among them. But, what are the differences between Symbian and the operating systems that run over the A100/A200 platforms? Well, on the former there are little apps for different aspects of the phone: the Inbox, the Calendar, the Phonebook, etc. They are completely independent.

On the other hand, on propietary OS, everything is more "monolithic" as most of the features are run by the same app (the main menu). I.e: you cannot change an alarm while browsing the phonebook without causing the later to be closed. If they were different apps, you could switch between them using the "Activity Menu" like you do with Java MIDlets, the Radio, the Web browser or the Media Player.

I tend to think that does this on purpose, because it is simpler for regular users to not have many apps opened at the same time. That may be the reason about the apparent lack of multitasking.

Best regards!
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Posted: 2007-12-17 17:21:20
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@WildNomad, excellent post! I just wanted to highlight the above post. What must realize is that ppl and each generation don't remain stupid. We evolve constantly and quickly as technology evolves and our use for it is faster being consumed. I think 's strategy with this partial monolithic is more confusing. Even for me ... ever few months I part from SE and test the waters of another phone platform or OS and coming back to SE I keep forgetting that although the music player can be multitasked or minimized, like Java apps (2 limited on my old W810, many more on my K790a), the Browser cannot. Heck it only consumes 800KB at max before it stops loading a page and prompts an error or just crashes that function. Yahoo Go! in Java uses a LOT more memory. My K790a has 71MB free ram so its the core platform limiting or the browser is limited by design. This has got to stop. No longer am I present to load html or html lite when I visit Esato on NetFront browser.
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Posted: 2007-12-19 02:24:24
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